You’re absolutely right. You do. And I have exactly zero problem with your yelling! I’ve never had a problem with it. I would not in a million years classify you as part of the problem we were talking about.
The post you cited as “almost anyone would say I was totally unreasonable and too yelly”– I have zero problem with it. I feel like it’s rude to dissect what you said, like I’m sort of putting words in your mouth, but I don’t know how else to explain. So here goes.
The first like 3/4 of that post is 100% quality expressing emotions and boundaries as far as I’m concerned. You say “I am triggered” in so many words, you say “that was condescending” which it absolutely was, and it would be a shitty thing to say even if it weren’t a trigger for you, and you say “I’m not going to listen to things like this anymore”. Seriously, with this post you are meeting the standard that I aspire to and struggle to meet in talking about things like this. Those first couple of paragraphs could be a script from Captain Awkward. I have written yellier things than that first part while definitely not triggered and not even really angry.
Further down you do get into just yelling about how bad you feel. But with the rest of what you said, I don’t think it’s a problem.
The kind of thing that would bother me would start with yelling about how shitty they feel, and then progress to “And it was YOU, YOU made me feel so shitty, you are the worst person ever in the world and you should die in a graphically unpleasant way.” And possibly go on to insult everything they know about the other person, or demand that they grovel and admit to being a bad person.
Yeah, part of this is about people’s personal limits for how much anger and yelling they can listen to. And yeah, nobody should turn that into an absolute standard that everyone should meet. But I do think that there’s something else.
I don’t want to put words in the mouths of the other people who’ve been talking about this, and I can’t find that big post that got mentioned to refresh my memory. So here is my possibly very flawed explanation of what I was trying to say is a problem.
It seems to me, from the outside, that sometimes people use their hurt and anger as a weapon. They talk about how they feel not because they need to vent, or get advice, or because they want to explain why something needs to change– not because they want to feel better– but because they want to hurt and tear down the person who hurt them. It doesn’t end in “Phew, I feel a little better now” or in “All right, you understand, maybe this can be okay” but in “HA HA I WIN.” (And sometimes it doesn’t end for a long time.)
That’s what I have a problem with. People who want to win the Pain Olympics and think they should get a prize of power and validation and walking-on-eggshells from everybody around them. People whose goal isn’t “stop saying the thing” but “admit you are dirt”.
There are lots of things we should be able to get from people who hurt us. We get to have them stop and go away. If the harm they did is something straightforward that they can fix, we get to expect that. But I don’t think we get to demand they feel guilty and pathetic enough to satisfy us. I don’t think we get to demand they sit still and let us have revenge. That’s what I’m against.
And you’re hurt and upset about this and the conversation keeps going off in different directions and I don’t want to come in at a bad time and start a fight, so I’m not actually telling you this.